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Talk:Amok Time (episode)
Amok Amok is not a mystery, look it up in a dictionary. 1. In a frenzy to do violence or kill: rioters running amuck in the streets. 2. In or into a jumbled or confused state: The plans went amuck. 3. In or into a uncontrolled state or a state of extreme activity: "This jam-packed area of Honolulu has come to stand for tourist development run amok‿ (Ila Stanger). adj. Crazed with murderous frenzy Where is the mystery of Amok Time? --TOSrules 10:46, 3 Mar 2005 (GMT) :how completely random. --Gvsualan 19:36, 3 Mar 2005 (GMT) This is not random, I was responding to the now removed statement, "The origins of the word Amok in the title remains a mystery. The word Pon farr has always been used for the Vulcan mating time."--TOSrules ::The user added another note theorizing that "amok" is related to "amuck" -- actually they are alternate spellings of the same word, clearly defined in many sources. this doesn't need definition as it is not an especially uncommon word. -- Captain Mike K. Bartel Obviously the use doesn't know what he's talking about. we all miss a fact from time to time. I agree Amok doesn't need any explanation. --TOSrules 06:19, 4 Mar 2005 (GMT) :::It's actually used by a Cohen, not a rabbi. Spock? Sir? Is this episode, truly the only time McCoy ever calls Spock, "sir?" Just asking. Sir Rhosis 21:25, 7 March 2006 (UTC) Spock's Viewscreen In the Background Information it is said that Spock destroys his Viewscreen and is later seen vieweing T'Pring's picture on it. I just watched the episode and went back to make sure, it shows him viewing the picture before Kirk enters and Spock tells him about the Pon farr. Then later he destroys it when Uhura calls to tell him they are indeed going to Vulcan. Was this how it originally aired or has it been edited? :The original airing had Spock destroying his viewscreen after the talk with Kirk, when he was interrupted playing his lytherette by Uhura's signal. The summary in the article should give these events in proper sequence. And I should really get an account here. I'm Bluejay Young and I've been working on these summaries for a year now. Head Start? There's nothing at all strange about this bit that was in the background information: * Before the close up shot of T'Pring suddenly walking to the altar to claim "Kal-if-fee", we can see her already getting a head start. The scene is edited such that she can beat Spock to the gong, which is how it has to be. —Spider 19:44, 7 January 2007 (UTC) :This error was not fixed in the remastered version, by the way. - Adambomb1701 14:53, 20 February 2007 (UTC) :Also, in the remastered version, it was revealed that the "Koon-Utt-Kalif-Fee" took place on a mountain top. Was that supposed to be Mt. Seleyah from Star Trek III ? - Adambomb1701 14:53, 20 February 2007 (UTC) First Time? Is it stated this is Spock's first pon farr? In ST:III, Saavik says they go thru it every 7 years of their adult life. I can't believe Spock was still in puberty in season 1 of TOS. 13:06, 26 March 2007 (UTC) :I believe it has been proposed that Spock's behavior in / was a "mild" Pon Farr. The events in The Cage took place thirteen years prior to The Menagerie, so the events in Amok Time are pretty close to fourteen (two sets of seven) years following The Cage. Spock's character was quite emotional in the pilot, and other crew members did not seem to find his behavior unusual for him. I think this can only be explained with Spock being extremely new to the crew in The Cage. Spock did not yet have the authority to thwart any questions about his unusual behavior (Lt. Sulu might ask Ensign Chekov or Lt. Uhura why they are be behaving strangely, but he wouldn't dare ask the same questions to the First Officer), so Spock's lower rank in the pilot support that he is new, and other crew members would not be familiar with Vulcan logic and emotionlessness. If Spock were not new in The Cage, other crew members would have found his behavior odd, and would have no qualms about saying so to a lower-ranking officer. Mal7798 20:04, 17 September 2007 (UTC) ::This was covered extensively in an article by Jacqueline Lichtenberg for Tricorder Readings (I think -- I have it somewhere). She talks about what she did in Kraith to explain the continuity of Spock's behavior from the first to third seasons (the film version hadn't yet come out). She is now involved in putting all of Kraith up on line and I can ask her if she would feel like putting up that article. - Jay The fight was only a DREAM! Hi! That's what you have written: "In sickbay, however, he finds Kirk alive and well, having been injected not with tri-ox, but with a neuroparalyzer which simulates death." This is definitely not true. The fight only took place in Spock's imagination. Or how else do you explain that (in the sickbay scene) McCoy and Kirk apparently do not know what Spock is talking about - having killed Jim and now himself being the captain on Enterprise. Best regards Harald :Um... no. They knew full well what Spock was talking about. McCoy injected Kirk with a neuroparalyzer to simulate death, hence why Kirk was actually in sickbay. They even explained the neuroparalyzer in the scene itself. How, exactly, did you interpret the fight scene as a dream, or where did you get such information? --From Andoria with Love 21:40, 31 March 2007 (UTC) ::The first German version was apparently edited by the censors so much that the story was completely different from the original produced episode. There is more info about this at MA/de, I think. --Bp 21:44, 31 March 2007 (UTC) :Ahh, I see. It's a good thing this is the English MA, then. ;) --From Andoria with Love 21:55, 31 March 2007 (UTC) I already got that answer in the German part of Memory Alpha. That, however, doesn't make it true. The first conversation with Ti Prin was already in Spock's imagination (That's why Uhura asked him whom he was talking to!) and he gave orders to change course without later remembering. Please don't tell me this was only due to the German cut or dub! The problematic thing is only: For a first time viewer it is hard to tell when Spock's dream began, because there was deliberately something omitted in the middle as otherwise the outcome would have been too easy to guess. The last definitely "real" scene actually is the one, where Kirk and McCoy are discussing a drug for Spock (note: for Spock, not for the Captain; so forget about your neuroparalyzer!) that will help him over his crisis. That the fight cannot have been intended to be a real one is already obvious from the rather surrealistic setting on Vulcan that is quite typical for a nightmare. And there are numerous other things - that I already mentioned - that support my thesis. In the final scene Kirk is clearly VISITING the sickbay which Spock (the patient) was just about to leave - having only just awakened from his feverish dream and still unaware that everything is all right. :::Do me a favour: Watch the episode in the English original, without any cuts and then you'll realize that what is described in the episode summary is what really happens. --Jörg 16:54, 19 August 2007 (UTC) :Do me that favor, too. This is the English Memory Alpha; we therefore go by what was in the English (and original) episode. --From Andoria with Love 17:06, 19 August 2007 (UTC) ::Don't be so harsh, Shran. He just doesn't realize how much the German version was hacked up. --Bp 17:40, 19 August 2007 (UTC) English version or not: If it was as most of you think, then please tell me how Kirk and McCoy knew in advance what would happen during the ceremony which was intended to be Spock's wedding. This would imply that it was a mock-ceremony from the very beginning and that it was all pre-arranged just in order to mislead Spock. A giant conspiration for his bestwill. Otherwise you get the impression that Ti Prin met Kirk for the first time and that officialy chosing him as her fighter was a completely improvised decision. Were Kirk and McCoy clairvoyants or did they know the Vulcan culture and philosophy better than Spock himself (who didn't even foresee that there would be a fight, let alone with a non-Vulcan, and to make things worse, his best friend)? :Um... have you actually watched the original episode? When Kirk and McCoy arrive on Vulcan, McCoy has no idea what the koon-ut-kal-if-fee is. Kirk knows because Spock told him about it before they arrived and fills in McCoy. The episode you saw was altered from the original episode; what happened in the version you're speaking of did not happen in the original episode. :Let's put this another way, though. This is the English Memory Alpha. Here, the original English version is canon. The altered German version? Not canon. If the German Memory Alpha accepts that as canon, that's fine, but here, we only accept what was seen on-screen in the original English version. I'm just not sure how much clearer we can make this... --From Andoria with Love 20:25, 20 August 2007 (UTC) As you yourself say: McCoy has no idea of all this when arriving on the planet. But despite his ignorance he happens to have some neuro-paralyzer with him. What a lucky coincidence! And even if Kirk had told McCoy something about the Vulcan habits before, both could not possibly foresee what even Spock had not expected when being beamed onto the planet's surface (in his imagination). Ti Prin's behaviour is calculating but by no way calculable, as she confuses boundless egotism with logic. I am fully aware that the German version was (however only slightly) altered, so there is no need to keep repeating that this article is only about the English version. But how come that the German version seems to make more sense than (your understanding of) the original version? I watched the original version some years ago when I was visiting a friend of mine in America. But alas! At that time, due to an accident, I had only just become deaf and not yet learned to read the spoken words from their lips. Sh...!!!!!!!! Is there any possibility to get it with captions? :The neural paralyzer is likely a part of McCoy's regular medkit. As Jorg pointed out to me on IRC, paralyzing neurons is necessary in the event of poisoning, to prevent the poison from spreading. McCoy likely has all sorts of medicines in his kit or hypospray, in case of an emergency. And I'm not sure what you're talking about Kirk and McCoy foreseeing the challenge – both were as surprised as Spock when T'Pau informed them that T'Pring had chosen the challenge. The English version makes perfect sense, just like the German version does to you. Anyway, you should be able to find the episode with subtitles and closed-captioning on Region 2 TOS Season 2 DVDs. Also, you can find the transcript for the episode here. Enjoy! :) --From Andoria with Love 21:35, 20 August 2007 (UTC) ::::Nami became ill from consuming carbonated tomato paste! ::::Seriously, this is why the original language versions are always considered to be canonically superior to the translated versions. And if anyone else here actually understands what that phrase above means, then you are more than qualified to explain how these absurdities gain legs and start walking all over us. Either way, I just someone had the good sense to release Amok Time in an "unbutchered" form over there in Germany. Sweetfreek 07:21, 23 January 2008 (UTC) :::::Where can I see the English transcript? The link doesn't seem to work any more. 21:59, May 11, 2012 (UTC) ::::::Hmm. It's been over five years since this debate started, and you haven't realized the real intentions behind the comments by this "Harald". I guess we shall end this, and not bother with it anymore. --Ltarex 17:58, 12 May 2012 (UTC) :::::::Fortunately, the transcript-link seems to work again. And this Harald is not a troll. Meanwhile he found out that indeed "Amok time" had another original concept which was changed during the filming. Due to a limited budget there remained many things that are inconsistent with the altered story line. Ironically, the German dubbed version stuck to this first idea of a nightmare. 17:28, May 24, 2012 (UTC) Removed Background notes I removed all of the following from the article for being nitpicks, POV, or incredibly trivial: * In an extremely touching moment, as Spock tells Kirk that male Vulcans are accompanied to pon farr by their closest friends, he asks that McCoy come along. This is a wonderful acknowledgment by Spock that McCoy is indeed a good friend. In his honored response, McCoy calls Spock "sir" for the only time in the series. * Another such moment is after Spock tells Kirk everything about the pon farr, and hangs his head after revealing so much that is extremely personal for him. Before telling Spock he will get him to Vulcan somehow, Kirk instinctively reaches to comfort his friend, but pulls back, realizing Spock could not accept such a gesture. * Curiously, the purple stain left on the wall outside Spock's quarters when he flings the plomeek soup remained on that wall for the next two seasons. Whenever the crew quarters set is used, whether for Kirk, Spock or another character, watch for the stain through the doorway. * Sickbay is on Deck 5, established by dialogue. The sickbay of the is also on deck 5. * When Spock pounds his viewscreen into oblivion, there is no glass shattering heard (Kirk's evil self destroyed a viewscreen in and breaking glass resulted). – Cleanse 23:15, 22 November 2007 (UTC) :I removed this info: Director Joseph Pevney had worked with Celia Lovsky in the Western film ''Foxfire, in which Lovsky played a dignified Apache princess who explains tribal customs to tourists. It is possible that Pevney suggested Lovsky for the somewhat similar role of T'Pau.'' It had an tag since December. It's not even a good speculation, since T'Pau's role is not serve as a tourist guide for Kirk and McCoy. In fact, she explains little of what is going on. Hokstein 11:03, 15 April 2008 (UTC) ::I understand, but if you ever get a chance to see Foxfire, watch for that scene and observe Celia's stoic attitude, her description of Apache practices of emotional control, and particularly the words "These are some of the differences... between our cultures". Pevney had worked with her in that and two other pictures. But I can't prove it, and Pevney's gone now, so there we are. --KTJ 01:03, December 7, 2009 (UTC) First use of the vulcan salute The first person to appear on screen doing the Vulcan salute is T'Pau. After the cerimony participants have arrived in the Koon-ut-kal-if-fee grounds, right after the servants place her chair in the platform, there's a shot of T'Pau alone in the frame raising her hand and doing the salute. Then we get another shot, from T'Pau's back, which shows both her and Spock doing it. Hokstein 02:03, 16 April 2008 (UTC) :Regarding: "The salute, incidentally, is actually a hand sign done with both hands by the of the Hebrew tribes when the congregation of a Jewish synagogue is being blessed with the "May the Lord bless you and keep you" prayer." :"Priests of the Hebrew tribes"? Please. In modern times, we're called "Jews". Neither I or Nimoy were raised in a particularly tribalist culture. (The Cohen and Levi tribes do retain some ritual significance today in Orthodox congregations, although it is frequently disputable whether modern Jews can actually trace their lineages back that far.) I'm updating this text so it doesn't sound like it was written by an 18th-century British anthropologist. --Jporten 06:14, 25 June 2009 (UTC) ::Fair enough, but don't blame me. I was quoting Nimoy, from his Star Trek Memories special. He called them "the priests of the Hebrew tribes", and my mother on hearing this said it was the proper usage, so I wrote it in that way. --KTJ 01:10, December 7, 2009 (UTC) Other Information Entire section belongs on Star Trek parodies and pop culture references and not here. — Morder 03:13, 15 October 2008 (UTC) Background Information: Vulcan Salute Currently, the piece on this being the first use of the Vulcan salute says: *This episode marked the first use of the Vulcan salute (by T'Pau) and of the words "Live long and prosper" (by Spock). The salute, incidentally, is actually a gesture performed with both hands as part of a rabbinical benediction during Jewish High Holy services. According to Nimoy in a 1984 television special Star Trek Memories, the original script called for Spock to walk up to T'Pau and then they would exchange brief greetings and Nimoy thought this might be a good chance to bring something unique to the Vulcan people. When he spoke to the show's director, Nimoy remarked that as an example, like most people will shake hands, how military officers salute each other and Asians will bow to each other, perhaps Vulcans will do the salute that he remembered from his childhood and the director agreed to try it. I would like to see this cut down, but I do not know what I should leave in and what I should not. The similarity between the salute and the Jewish gesture does not belong here in my opinion, it should be on Vulcan salute, that part seems clear to me. However, the other part feels like it is only bloating the remark as well to me. I would suggest that the current point will be reduced to: *This episode marked the first use of the Vulcan salute (by T'Pau) and of the words "Live long and prosper" (by Spock). Then, the point of how it came to be can either be added as a follow-up point, or even on Vulcan salute only. Actually, I think that even if it is decided to keep the remark on this page, it should be added to Vulcan salute as well, as it is the origin of the salute. So, what do you think? *Jasper* 02:09, January 19, 2010 (UTC) :Sure, keep what you suggest and move the rest to the proper place. — Morder (talk) 02:11, January 19, 2010 (UTC) I suggested two alternatives: no mention of Nimoy proposing the salute on this page at all, or as a second bullet. Which of the two were you agreeing with? I removed both statements entirely for now and added the second to Vulcan salute, I am still not sure about whether to add the second statement to this page as well, though. Do note that I merely copied the paragraph on Nimoy's recollections, it still has the ungrammar in the last sentence it had before. *Jasper* 02:47, January 19, 2010 (UTC) Removed Uncited for a long time and I've never heared anything about this: * The T-apostrophe prefix of most Vulcan female names was established in this episode. The S and T prefixes were supposed to serve the same function as "Mr." and "Ms." do in English. – Tom 01:08, September 2, 2010 (UTC) : It came from D.C. Fontana, and was reprinted in Inside Star Trek (the original, official fanzine), in 1968. There is also a lengthy and somewhat amusing discussion of "S" for male Vulcan names in The Making of Star Trek by Whitfield. -- 04:37, February 4, 2011 (UTC) ::If you can cite the note (including a page number), then it can be returned (see MA:CYS if you're unsure of the correct style). This note would also be interesting to have on the Vulcan page (in the background section).–Cleanse ( talk | ) 05:06, February 4, 2011 (UTC) :::Removed the following nitpick: When Kirk confronts Spock in his quarters, a 3D chess set is seen behind Spock. From the pieces already taken on the desk he has clearly been playing himself. This reflects not only his struggle with his heritage, but a time when emotion "wins". --31dot 12:06, February 14, 2012 (UTC) Coronation Comment moved from the article: Is this the worked actually used in the script or spoken by the actors? Surely in the 23rd century no Human would use the word coronation for a presidential swearing in. Coronation refers to the crowning of a king. If the word does not appear in the script or is not specifically spoken in the episode, I recommend changing to "swearing-in" or oath-cerememony". The Federation would avoid the use such language. German TV/Episode Since German TV at the time, ZDF aired a version that "radically changed the dialogue, rearranging some scenes, while cutting others." does that mean that their is a "lost episode" out their. since the German's did end up showing the episode as it was aired in the USA that means Germany has 81 episodes for TOS not the 80 we have correct? Marc Chase :No. Showing an edited version of an episode, even a highly edited version, doesn't make it a new episode. --OuroborosCobra talk 19:36, November 30, 2011 (UTC) Removed section I removed the following. As it was already noted on the episode page, this whole section should be moved to the approriate pages (Star Trek parodies and pop culture references, Stargate (franchise), etc.). References from other media * This episode is referenced in the Stargate SG-1 episode "Babylon". In that episode, Colonel Mitchell is given an herb to make him appear dead by a Sodan named Jolan. Upon waking up and finding out that it worked, Mitchell says "Well done, Bones." * This episode is also referenced (and somewhat shown) in the movie Transformers: Dark of the Moon (which also, incidentally, features the voice of Leonard Nimoy). The character Wheelie is sitting on Sam Witwicky's couch when the episode comes on. He then says that he's seen it already, calling it "The one where Spock loses it." * Futurama episode " " featured a "Claw-plach" ceremony with the Decapodian National Anthem matching the battle theme from "Amok Time". During the "Claw-plach" ceremony, the first weapon available for the combatants to choose from matches the weapon used by Kirk and Spock in "Amok Time." * The motion picture has Jim Carrey and Matthew Broderick facing off in Medieval Times, with Jim Carrey quoting lines from the fight, utilizing a weapon similar to Spock's, and even mimicking the movie. * Eddie Murphy performed a comedy routine talking about his love of Star Trek, and mimicked the fight music while parading around the stage. * In The Big Bang Theory episode " " Howard and Raj try to get Sheldon to go an a date saying "Even Spock dated once." To which Sheldon replies "He did not date, he went through pon farr." A direct reference to this episode. -- Ltarex, 17:33 23 July 2012 (CET) :All of those are already on their pages except for the Big Bang Theory and Eddie Murphy routines. The Eddie Murphy routine would need a time when it was performed too. Was it in one of the stand-up movies he did? -- sulfur (talk) 15:39, July 23, 2012 (UTC)